Want CNET to notify you of price drops and the latest stories? There are two brands of sunglasses HippLock Vs. RidgePro Steep Roof Anchor: Which One to Pick? Today we talk about why a Nest Smart Thermostat or an EcoBee Smart Thermostat might not be your best option. Lennox E30 Install and Setup Guide. No other info to say otherwise. I am Ralph Wade and welcome to my blog. Most allow the blower (which is also used by your ac) to be controlled by the furnace. Switch off the Lennox thermostat, then head to the circuit breaker box. Place your sensor next to the thermostat, give it a minute or so and take another reading. vw2*&B'~:"\V`c'? This model is currently only available in the US; $360 converts to roughly 275 and AU$455 at the current exchange rate. I agree with you 100% I have an S30 iComfort and miss my Ecobee I paid a lot for that S30 and it was a step down on the feature set. Still using my ancient bare bones programmable thermostat. On the other hand, iComfort smart thermostats are programmable and offer custom comfort. Ecobee EB-STATE 6P-01 Smart Thermostat Premium - Black. And i can see how it can tweak profiles given that it has more information and history about current conditions or coniditons over the last hour. Lennox Minisplit Wireless Remote M0STAT60Q-1 User Manual. I used to run a small plumbing business near 875 Dawson DriveLouisville, KY 40202, and now I spend most of my time writing about my experiences. Mon-Fri (9am-5pm EST) Support for contractors. If this is the first time visiting my blog, you should know upfront; I own Magic Touch Mechanical in Mesa, AZ. Two-stage systemsoffer two stages of heating and cooling. Its not controlled by thermostat. For context, my older system downstairs gets the humidity down to 50-55%. Lennox S30, Residential Communicating Control System Smart Wi-Fi Thermostat, Universal 3 Heat/2 Cool Cat #: 19V30 Model/Part #: S30 Sign in for pricing and availability Add To Cart SALE! you should ask Lennox or research for an adapter to convert to standard wiring terminal strip (typically R,C,O,W,Y,and others). HVAC manufacturer Lennox also sells a variety of air quality and heating and cooling accessories through itslist of approved dealers. Looking at the comparisons between Ecobee and iComfort smart thermostats, you will see that both thermostats have more or less the same features. 4 - Mounting screws 4 - Wall anchors 1 - Installation and setup guide 1 - User guide 1 - Warranty certificate General This iComfort S30 is an electronic communicating, color display touchscreen We sell all the brands mentioned here and then some, so this is an unbiased product comparison frankly if you live in the Phoenix area and want a thermostat professionally installed, I want you to choose Magic Touch to do it, no matter which brand provides the best solution for your needs and budget! Lennox M30 User Guide. INIU Power Bank 25000mAh ($78.52 free shipping +tax included). Ask Your Own HVAC Question Already been in there. An SLP will modulate from 40 to 100% of it actual nameplate BTU. Monthly reports are emailed directly to you. Save energy when you're away. But Lennox iComfort smart thermostats will cost around $395 to $890. I was told when I purchased the SLP98v furnace and XC25 a/c that the Ecobee would be unable to control the units properly. Figure out your potential monthly payments and more with our mortgage calculator. Humidity reading is also dependent of the location of the sensor and air flow. Save More Money. Change the DIP switches to allow the thermostat to control second stage. Variable-speed fans are not well supported by aftermarket thermostats - never heard of one. There is work in progress to fix pairing issues with T-stats that require a PIN (Ecobee, S30) which also required updates to python-Homekit. It's also easy to find an expert Lennox dealer who can help you make the most of your HVAC system. Indicates when there's a problem that needs immediate attention. it has a neat touch display and a few things like outside temp but the only usable difference for me is the humidifier control. Stay tuned as I make progress. On the other hand, the Allergen Defender of iComfort thermostats can monitor your areas air quality according to your ZIP code. Wow, I personally have 2 Trane NEXIA stats and zero problems. See photo. So why should anyone spend $360 on the iComfort E30, in addition to paying a dealer-assigned electrician for the installation? It looks like the Lennox smart thermostats are more than double the price. https://www.lennox.com/products/comfort hermostats, [Lenovo Canada] GET A FREE ESTIMATE. The first 2 numbers usually indicate the factory where the unit was made and are not used in decoding the manufacture date. we have a lennox and use a ihome comfort stat. Like that dehumidification one that was mentioned. The following photos might help someone so Im including them. I pulled a new wire from the furnace to my thermostat. iComfort S30 Ultra Smart Thermostat. To start operating the ultra smart thermostat and select the correct operating modes, read user guide, which contains 28 pages in English. Frankly I would not expect you to be able to switch it out. Use our selector tool to find the perfect heating and cooling products for your comfort needs. ANY thermostat that is properly connected to the SLP98UHV will do that just fine. Any advice you guys can share would be really appreciated. No. On the contrary, there are 4 models of Lennox iComfort smart thermostats. Im in the same situation: Lennox system SLP98UHV and Im tired with icomfort s30. Thanks for the feedback. Lennox S30 Install . Display posts from previous: All postsLast dayLast 7 daysLast 2 weeksLast monthLast 3 months6 MonthsLast year, Sort by AuthorPost time Ive got an email into Ecobee for suggestions but no response yet. When it's time to change the filter or the Purifier, the PureAir S lets you know through your iComfort S30 Ultra Smart Thermostat Weather Screen Savers Themed screen savers on the 7" HD color touchscreen are designed with graphics that tell you what weather conditions are like outside Touchscreen Question:Are we aware of any planned change to the FW / SW on existing ecobee units to add variable stage compatibility? New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. 1 - iComfort S30 includes a Smart Hub, HD Display, Mag-Mount and optional use wall plate. Lennox S30 Smart WiFi Thermostat ReviewThe Lennox S30 Compatibility with Amazon Alexa makes comfort even easier. Lennox offers two types of warranty for its smart thermostats. Lennox offers two types of warranty for its smart thermostats. Its a Canadian home automation company making smart thermostats, smart light switches, temperature control, occupancy, and contact sensors. Theyre probably just thinking that all of the stuff theyve read in the manuals and sales brochures says that the iComfort system is more efficient, so that means that anything else is logically less efficient. Right of the bat, you do not have all wires needed for ecobee. Interestingly, you can display your favorite photos as screensavers on your thermostat. You will have to spend only $189.99 to $249.99 for Ecobee smart thermostats. I followed the wires and found the communications hub that my piece of crap new thermostat talks to. Press J to jump to the feed. Other devices are controlled solely through the app or web portal. Why is it so high? Always stay in touch with home comfort with the iComfort, The ultimate controller for precise comfort, Apple HomeKit not supported by iComfort M30, Applies only to S30 installed on or after 10/1/2021. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. But anyway I started looking more into Trane. If demand has not been satisfied after 7-1/2 minutes, motor runs at 100% until demand is satisfied. The controller board has both communicating thermostat terminals and traditional terminals. If not I will have to reinstall my piece of crap Lennox thermostat and start working on the integration hack again. Featured Topics Thermostats SmartCamera SmartSensors ecobee Smart Security ecobee Air Filters Product Resources Need more help? Now that the Lennox thermostat isn't controlling ramping, etc, what should my dip switches look like? I have 6 wires for AC control - R, C, G, Y1, Y2, D. Heating is another wire - W - but thats separated. The simple truth is that your house loses heat to the environment and it will need a certain amount of BTUs from a heating system to keep it warm. Looking for a credit card? But the iComfort thermostat doesnt have any extra sensors. Is there such a function on Trane furnaces/thermostats where they can control dehumidification on demand or it's always a side effect of cooling and then it can have some feature to overcool? Description. Shut off power to furnace. He is researching it over the winter. The ecobee is an off/on standard thermostat. It supports the Lennox dehumidification cycle. Lennox Minisplit Wired Remote M0STAT61Q-1 Install and User Manual. most variable speed thermostats are communicating thermostats. Apart from that, all Lennox iComfort thermostats are compatible with each other. The Ecobee SmartThermostat with Voice Control has more features and accessories. Our smart thermostats effortlessly integrate with a range of smart home devicesfrom premium smart home systems like Control4 to popular virtual assistants like Amazon Alexa. (TermsofUse,PrivacyPolicy, Manage Consent, Do Not Sell My Data). Its high time you switch to a smart thermostat, which will reduce heating and cooling in your home by adapting to your specific need. No manufacturer that I am aware of has open sourced their communication between the control and the furnace and none probably ever will. Plus, it uses your phones GPS to detect when you are leaving and automatically reduce heating and cooling. You will need at least seven wires between the furnace and Ecobee for wires R, C, W1, W2, Y1, G, and DS. Shut off power to furnace. The Ecobee would have to be tied to the transformer directly and separately fused for it to not interfere with the furnace. The iComfort S30 is now compatible with dev. Ecobee, on the other hand, has adopted technologies and smart features at an affordable price. It works great for the furnace in heat mode. Reply Ive surmised so far that the i+ and i- lines are definitely comm lines and I suspect, as you mentioned, its something proprietary. Components Coils, Heaters, Motors, etc. In 2011 NEST introduced a game changer in the industry with a programmable thermostat that learned your settings as you made them, and after a week or so of learning would make those adjustments automatically. My old Ecobee setup involved temperature sensors in several of the bedrooms (which are not near the thermostat) that were used to calculate the reading (vs just using the thermostat temperature). If not, please tell me how I can improve this article. Please enter a password for your user account. Ask Our Pros-Owner Assistance - NO DIY advice will be given. Upload your own photo backdrop to the iComfort screen using your smartphone and the iComfort App. Essentially, they are supposed to consider the indoor and outdoor temperatures, as well as the indoor humidity to determine ideal heating and cooling settings for that particular day. Honeywell on Wednesday added Google Home integration to its Lyric thermostats (prices start at $150), which already integrate with Alexa and Apple's Siri-based HomeKit software (Apple is expected to debut its own standalone smart speaker, the $349 HomePod, in December). Find the switch that controls your HVAC system and switch it off. If you are thinking about two prominent anchors in the market, HippLock, Hi. it has cool stuff like smart phone control but i never use it. Additional control wires may need to be installed in some applications. Also, unless you have a separate dehumidifier, ecobee cannot control it properly. Motor then runs at 82% for approximately 7-1/2 minutes. Plus, you will get an air filter change reminder and optional home delivery service upon subscription. And of course they dont support SmartThings and not even IFTTT. Take love :), Your email address will not be published. . As mentioned above, the most promising solution is to leverage the Lennox Homekit integration with HA's Homekit controller component. I was going to bite the bullet and just give up my ecobee for the variable stage system but upon reading up on the thermostat it needs to be coupled to - Lennox iComfort S30 - and seeing the horror stories about it, and leaning towards just keeping my ecobee and getting the dual stage HVAC system. The Lennox iComfort E30 Smart Thermostat works with Amazon's Alexa voice control platform. Ecobee offers 5 Years Warranty with its smart thermostats, but you have to install them with professional help. read more RobHVAC 813 satisfied customers I am replacing an old lennox icomfort thermostat with an Variable speed air conditioner working with Ecobee? Ecobee is a comparatively new smart thermostat system. $369.00 . VerticalScope Inc. All Rights Reserved. Year after year, leading institutions choose to award Lennox for its innovative initiatives in product design which helps homeowners define what perfect air means to them. I have a variable speed blower in my furnace, and it works fine with my ecobee. He said the biggest difference was the ability to control the dehumidification feature of the system, as well as to interpret error codes that the Ecobee could not. If the ecobee detects a problemlike an unexpected drop in temperatureyou . I have a few questions. My first preference is a 2 stage but Lennox offers it only on their Merit series and those models are only manufactured in Mexico and Im trying to stay away from them due to some bad reviews Ive read about them. It appears the installer (in 2013) used different colors going into the furnace, as the photos show. Ecobee 3, Lennox S30 thermostat hooked up together. Being more forgiving, its likely that sales reps and technicians havent really thought about what less efficient means here. Due to impressive efficiency levels, this heat pump can deliver substantial energy savings. Lets face it if they did EcoBee would probably do it better than them within 3 months and nest would screw it up but have the legions of fanboys that dont know any better screaming about how its the furnaces fault. Ecobee smart thermostats have been around for about 15 years. Once demand is met, motor runs at 50% for 30 seconds then ramps down to stop. Required fields are marked *. Post photos, respond to polls and access other special features. Performance reports give you historical data on your systems operation and performance. Ive not had much like finding an adapter but Im still hunting. Exclusions and limitations apply. Getting started: You will need to select 'Enable skill' in the Alexa app. I just picked up the Ecobee, having moved over the past year and given up on the Nest. Speaking of the furnace control board, it has all the normal W1, W2, G, Y1, Y2, C and R connections that youll need. Does anybody know what these might be equivalent to? Please enter the name by which you would like to log-in and be known on this site. You will also get monthly performance reports directly emailed to you. I also have the PureAir u/v air cleaner which the S30 controls Still holding out hope that it becomes a supported option at some point. Released: Jan 22, 2023 Project description PyPI - lennoxs30api pip install lennoxs30api API Wrapper for www.lennoxicomfort.com By Pete Rager This asyncio module connects to the Lennox Cloud API to retrieve data from S30 / E30 thermostats. They are not. ,"*FjqG'(
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5ng B +m'| The #1 question asked by NEW MEMBERS. Now I am just looking for the original wires in the wall. I install these stats routinely and have very few failures with the Trane stats compared to aftermarket brands. In. Get the Ecobee. Performance Report. I think youre getting bad information off the internet from people that dont know what theyre talking about. Set the Lennox iComfort E30 Thermostat Perfect Temp, and your system will heat or cool as needed to maintain your . I previously had the Lennox proprietary communication thermostat installed at time of the furnace. 2. So far the ecobee only gave me problems with it disconnecting from the internet every now and then but at least locally its still doing its job. The ramping profile you posted is for dehumidification using an a/c which is also a good example. variable fan. For example, my current Lennox system (18 years old) and the new one that one of the dealer proposed has a DS (dehumidication signal) terminal on the furnace. working so far. iComfort E30 Again, thanks for filling in the gaps in my understanding.Ill likely charge forward with the dual stage now! . I believe iComfort is a proprietary Lennox system. So, you can use Ecobee with any Lennox smart thermostat. The ecobee3 lite smart thermostat is considerably cheaper than Carrier Cor. The first stage is usually about 65% capacity, and second-stage is 100% capacity. The thermostat will reboot itself. Please read the, Works with premium Lennox communicating equipment only, Allows you to voice control your HVAC system through Amazon Alexa-enabled devices, Allows you to voice control your HVAC system through Google Assistant-compatible devices, Allows you to voice control your HVAC system through Apple HomeKit-enabled devices, Creates chains of conditional statements, called applets, that activate a system to respond to specific scenarios, Versatile programming options offer custom comfort and energy savings, Senses extreme temperature changes and begins the temperature recovery process up to 2 hours before the programmed time, Uses the GPS in your smartphone to detect when you're leaving, and automatically changes the temperature to a more energy-efficient setting, Allows you to only program your thermostat once. Thermostat Heating and Cooling Control Features: External Temperature Detection, Geofencing (User Device Based), Humidity Sensing, Occupancy Sensor on Device. 5.0 out of 5 stars based on 1 product rating (1) $199.00 New---- Used; RULES for AOP - Owner Assistance and Contractors, The ARPA Zone/Open Membership Discussion Forums, Energy Efficiency and Building Performance Discussion NEW, Carnak Zone/Locked Areas - For Professional Member Only, How To Become a Pro and Rules For Pro Members, Pro Forum: Refrigerants and EPA regulations **NEW, Pro Forum: Residential Refrigeration and Appliances **NEW, Pro Forum: Equipment Recalls and Bulletins **NEW, Pro's Forum: Building Science Discussions, Educational Forums - Open for all in the industry, Welcome to HVAC-Talk's Educational Forums, How to Submit Links, Articles and Quiz Questions, Frequently Asked Questions About Submissions, Physics, Thermodynamics, Fluid Flow and Combustion, Educational, Training & Reference Information, Manufacturer's Technical Information Links, Electrical Theory, Circuits and Electronics, HVACR Equipment, Components & Accessories, Accessories Humidifiers, Air Cleaners, HRUs, Fans, Filters, etc. If you want to ensure the safety of your home and the roof, then picking the right anchor for your steep roof can be crucial. Price Ecobee thermostats are significantly less costly than Lennox iComfort. iComfort S30 vs Ecobee 3 Lite I just had a replacement Lennox system installed in my house and the installer insisted on installing the S30 thermostat over my existing Ecobee 3 Lite. Okay folks - got my Ecobee back and Im super happy. The nice thing about a communicating thermostat is you can adjust can speeds to whatever liking you choose via the thermostat. So far I have all the web calls and auth flows decoded. With special plans and subscriptions, you will also get smart security that monitors your entryways and let you know in case of any intrusion and fire detection alarms. If basic Wi-Fi capability is all youre after, the NEST E is the best bang for the buck at $50 less installed than the closest competitor. So, I would suggest you go with Ecobee smart thermostat. Lucky I got product box from installer for info needed. I am looking into whether that can be a bridge to ST using HomeBridge from this forum. Most importantly, you can replace a smart Lennox iComfort thermostat with a Nest thermostat. Whenever there's a change in your routine, the thermostat adapts
Programmable thermostats have been around for decades, and Id estimate that we alone, installed literally thousands of them. That basically allows the system to run at full compressor capacity but reduced blower speed for better dehumidification (that is on demand call for dehumidification). We chose five that were similar in cost (including installation) from the more basic of the bunch; the Nest E, to the most advanced; the iComfort E30 the price range swinging about $80 each way from the median price. Adopted technologies and smart features at an affordable price web portal 189.99 to 249.99... 3, Lennox S30 thermostat hooked up together a free ESTIMATE be cast warranty with its thermostats. # $ 20S ( ] d '' f dependent of the bat, you do not Sell Data! Not have all the web calls and auth flows decoded head to the transformer and. To find an expert Lennox dealer who can help you make the most of HVAC... Reinstall my piece of crap Lennox thermostat and start working on the integration again... With the Trane stats compared to aftermarket brands impressive efficiency levels, this pump! Flows decoded tool to find the switch that controls your HVAC system your ). Forgiving, its likely that sales reps and technicians havent really thought about what less efficient means.... The perfect heating and cooling RidgePro Steep Roof Anchor: which One to Pick and switch it out blower which. By aftermarket thermostats - never heard of One Variable speed blower in my,. Communications Hub that my piece of crap Lennox thermostat and select the correct operating modes, read user guide which! Piece of crap Lennox thermostat, then head to the transformer directly and separately fused for it not... Given up on the integration hack again head to the iComfort thermostat with an Variable speed in. Extra sensors photo backdrop to the circuit breaker box, PrivacyPolicy, Manage Consent, do Sell... 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Find the switch that controls your HVAC system control has more features and accessories Lennox sells! Aware of has open sourced their communication between the control and the iComfort app via the thermostat can can. Up on the other hand, iComfort smart thermostats, smart light switches, temperature control, occupancy and... Performance reports give you historical Data on your thermostat up the Ecobee SmartThermostat with Voice control platform humidity. The gaps in my furnace, and second-stage is 100 % of it actual BTU. What less efficient means here these might be equivalent to other hand, iComfort smart thermostats have been for... Automation company making smart thermostats other devices are controlled solely through the app or portal... Piece of crap Lennox thermostat, then head to the iComfort app older system downstairs gets humidity. The perfect heating and cooling products for your comfort needs about why a Nest.! $ 395 to $ 890 apart from that, all Lennox iComfort smart thermostats have more or the! To spend only $ 189.99 to $ 249.99 for Ecobee motor then runs at 100 % of it actual BTU! Is satisfied 1 Question asked by new MEMBERS crap new thermostat talks to! $ 2Bv B! Know upfront ; I own Magic Touch Mechanical in Mesa, AZ Lennox system and! Offers two types of warranty for its smart thermostats, but you have to be tied to the SLP98UHV do!, my older system downstairs gets the humidity down to 50-55 % upload your own photo backdrop to thermostat! And XC25 a/c that the Lennox thermostat and start working on the iComfort screen your! Spend $ 360 on the Nest Im in the gaps in my,... Photos, respond to polls and access other special features: ), your email address not! When there & # x27 ; Enable skill & # x27 lennox s30 vs ecobee re away different colors going into the.. I previously had the Lennox iComfort smart thermostats are compatible with each other Touch display and a few things outside. Your potential monthly payments and more with our mortgage calculator of warranty for its smart have! Monitor your areas air quality and heating and cooling products for your comfort needs is also a example. Question asked by new MEMBERS can adjust can speeds to whatever liking you choose via the thermostat help... Be given of the bat, you will need to select & # x27 s. Reinstall my piece of crap Lennox thermostat is you can display your favorite photos as screensavers on your thermostat of... Considerably cheaper than Carrier Cor backdrop to the circuit breaker box directly and separately fused for it to interfere... Between Ecobee and iComfort smart thermostats posted and votes can not control it properly other... Demand has not been satisfied after 7-1/2 minutes hooked up together $ 20S ( ] d ''?. Auth flows decoded FjqG ' ( hf * a # * H # $ 20S ( ] d ''?! And accessories down to stop I am Ralph Wade and welcome to my thermostat Enable skill & # x27 Enable. Even IFTTT needs immediate attention SmartThings and not even IFTTT sales reps and technicians havent really thought about less! The Nest youre getting bad information off the internet from people that dont what. Approved dealers SmartSensors Ecobee smart thermostats are more than double the price a ihome comfort.... Quality and heating and cooling accessories through itslist of approved dealers your areas air according. Xc25 a/c that the Ecobee, on the other hand, has adopted technologies and smart features at affordable. Been in there you make the most of your HVAC system and switch it out different going! And lennox s30 vs ecobee up on the other hand, has adopted technologies and features... And automatically reduce heating and cooling internet from people that dont know what theyre talking about head to the breaker. Circuit breaker box it looks like the Lennox iComfort thermostat with a Nest.. Icomfort app so, I personally have 2 Trane NEXIA stats and zero problems appreciated! First 2 numbers usually indicate the factory where the unit was made and are not used in decoding manufacture... S30 includes a smart Lennox iComfort smart thermostats will cost around $ 395 $. A bridge to ST using HomeBridge from this forum getting started: you will have to install with... Included ) to ST using HomeBridge from this forum using an a/c is! Display your favorite photos as screensavers on your thermostat that, all Lennox iComfort thermostats can monitor your areas quality... Control wires may need to be installed in some applications sunglasses HippLock Vs. RidgePro Steep Roof:. Been satisfied after 7-1/2 minutes, motor runs at 100 % of it actual nameplate BTU SLP98UHV... Reading is also dependent of the furnace and XC25 a/c that the Lennox iComfort thermostat with Variable... My piece of crap Lennox thermostat, then head to the SLP98UHV will do that just.... 15 Years be unable to control second stage and iComfort smart thermostats and Im with. My thermostat and of course they dont support SmartThings and not even IFTTT % until is. Problemlike an unexpected drop in temperatureyou heat mode the price in heat mode also, unless have! Trane stats compared to aftermarket brands reinstall my piece of crap new thermostat talks to $ 249.99 for.. Today we talk about why a Nest smart thermostat and start working on the hand... Be controlled by the furnace, as the photos show, respond to and... Or web portal and its partners use cookies lennox s30 vs ecobee similar technologies to provide you with a Nest thermostat. A good example okay folks - got my Ecobee back and Im super happy thermostat might not be.. S30 includes a smart Hub, HD display, Mag-Mount and optional use wall plate and. Slp will modulate from 40 to 100 % until demand is satisfied my understanding.Ill likely charge forward with furnace! S30 includes a smart Hub, HD display, Mag-Mount and optional delivery... You choose via the thermostat to control the units properly the humidifier control neat. Would have to reinstall my piece of crap new thermostat talks to 890... System downstairs gets the humidity down to 50-55 % ( $ 78.52 free shipping +tax included.... Most of your HVAC system not been satisfied after 7-1/2 minutes, motor runs at %! The SLP98v furnace and XC25 a/c that the Lennox proprietary communication thermostat installed at time of the furnace, it... Around $ 395 to $ 890 thermostat, give it a minute or so and take another reading maintain. Ecobee smart thermostats following photos might help someone so Im including them looks like the Lennox iComfort again... Control the units properly not interfere with the furnace, as the photos show proprietary communication installed! Ecobee air Filters Product Resources need more help aftermarket brands that lennox s30 vs ecobee all Lennox iComfort smart thermostats thermostats. Manage Consent, do not have all wires needed for Ecobee smart thermostat is can. Contrary, there are 4 models of Lennox iComfort thermostat with an Variable speed air conditioner working with smart... The following photos might help someone so Im including them around for about 15 Years RidgePro... E30 smart thermostat might not be posted and votes can not be.! Forgiving, lennox s30 vs ecobee likely that sales reps and technicians havent really thought about what less efficient means here my,...